AI is moving fast and ‘if you wait for perfection, you’re going to be too late,’ says World Wide Technology’s CEO

During their conversation, Brady and Kavanaugh also discuss where WWT sits within the tech industry, AI, and where the CEO learned his work ethic.

Listen to the episode or read the transcript below.

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Transcript

Diane Brady: Leadership Next is powered by the folks at Deloitte who, like me, are exploring the changing roles of business leadership and how CEOs are navigating this change.

Welcome to Leadership Next the podcast about the changing rules of business leadership. I’m Diane Brady. In this episode, I sit down with Jim Kavanaugh, who’s the co-founder and CEO of World Wide Technology. You may not have heard of it, but it is a $20 billion a year tech giant based in St. Louis, of all places, and there is a good reason for that. That’s where Jim is from. He also happens to be an Olympic-level soccer player. Now owns the soccer team in St. Louis. He is an avid reader, and he is one of the people who is on the front lines of AI and a lot of where the world of tech is going. Here’s the conversation with Jim.

[Interview starts.]

So, Jim, you are the co-founder, CEO of World Wide Technology. Can I start with the basic of you being in St. Louis? Nice to see you. And by the way, I used to call it St. Louie when I was Canadian and was corrected, so it is indelibly etched in my brain as St. Louis and a wonderful place to be. Great city. Why is it a great place to locate your company?

Jim Kavanaugh: I would say it is. It has been a great place to grow up. I’ve lived here my entire life. So, I wouldn’t say there was any strategic vision or reason of why St. Louis, other than this is where I was born and raised. You know, I would look at it, it’s turned out quite well. There’s a lot of great people here in St. Louis. They were the foundation of the company, and it’s still, it’s now, World Wide Technology is a big part of the community, and employs a lot of people here in the community, and has done a lot for the community. So, St. Louis is an important place for me, and I’m glad that you were able to spend some time here and get to know St. Louie [laughs] quite well.

Brady: And now, of course, there is the soccer team. We’ll get to that. But let me start by reminding people, so you’re often described, I think it’s $20 billion tech powerhouse, systems integrator. Do you like being called a systems integrator? Because you always do strategy and many other things. Tell us a bit more about World Wide Technology and where it is today.

Kavanaugh: Being called a systems integrator is fine, but I would say at the same time, different people describe us different ways, because we do cover a lot of ground.

Brady: Yeah.

Kavanaugh: You know, on one hand, we’re a value-added reseller of technology equipment. We’ve been working with Cisco for almost 30 years now. Worked with John Chambers when he was the CEO, and now Chuck [Robbins] with him being the CEO, but World Wide has evolved from what I would say is a fairly simple value-added reseller to literally being a value-added reseller, growing not just locally here in St. Louis but growing domestically, growing globally, but adding services and the first services sector that we added was around networking. But then from there, we expanded that portfolio in a pretty significant way, adding voice, video, networking, compute, storage, cyber, software development, consulting, advisory services, along with now AI and digital transformation that you know is relevant to just about every company in the world.

Brady: Well, I promise you, we are not going to get out of this conversation without talking about AI. And I should tell people who are listening, I did a book with John Chambers, where we tracked his story of essentially helping to grow Cisco into this powerhouse. You started World Wide Technology, WWT—gives you kind of a bit of a wrestling aura too—but you started this company in 1990. Take us back to that time. First of all, the fact that you were a soccer star fascinates me. Give us a little bit of background on Jim Kavanaugh on how he came to co-found this company.

Kavanaugh: Yeah. Well, I, as you said, I played soccer growing up, and then through college, played with the ‘83 Pan Am team and ’84 Olympic team, and then went and played a couple years of pro. Unfortunately, the league wasn’t, I would say, as stable back then as it was, or as it is today. And soccer, you know, was growing, but not at the rate that it is, and I would say, with the substance that it has today. So I decided after a couple years playing pro that probably I just can go get a real job, even though I loved playing. And I wanted to be in the technology space. I actually went to work for a computer components company, a privately-held company called Future Electronics out of Montreal, Canada. It was a great company to learn from. So I was there for about a year and a half. And while I was there, the individual that I was working with and working for, we were talking about building a business and starting a new company, and that company ended up being World Wide Technology.

We also, at the same time, he was a friend of Dave Steward, who Dave and myself are now the two owners of World Wide Technology and founders. But back then, I would say even young kids that I’m talking to, the one thing I would say that I did right was that I wanted to be in the tech space. So I’ve got some education working for Future Electronics on board-level components. And you think about how the world has come around, with AI now, but a lot of that was chip related, and diodes and capacitors and all things going on, motherboards. Well, it was a good start. And then from there, we started World Wide, back in 1990 as a value-added reseller, really having no idea what we were doing.

Brady: Look, I want to get into that, but you glossed over very quickly that you were an Olympian. You played pro soccer for a few years. I want, let’s pause a second there, because that is incredibly cool, obviously incredible discipline you get as an athlete. But can you tell me some of your favorite moments? I mean, this is an Olympics year. I’m talking to a former Olympian here. What is it like to compete at that level?

Kavanaugh: Yeah, the competition is, it is eye opening, you know. And as you move from every level, and you play and compete with people at different levels, it was such a great experience. I grew up, my dad was a bricklayer. My mom really was a stay-at-home mom for most of our upbringing. So we came from a pretty modest upbringing.

Making the Pan Am and Olympic team back in ‘83 and from that point, I traveled with the team for almost 15 months. I think we traveled in tournaments, played in tournaments, almost 30 different tournaments around the world. So, one to compete with the different U.S. players that you had to compete to make the team. And then the competition when you were playing in these tournaments, the experience was just amazing, considering I’ve never really traveled out of St. Louis, and at that point now I’m traveling all over the world. The first tournament we played in was in Seoul, Korea, that was a President’s Cup. We had another tournament in Beijing, a Great Wall Cup in China. And then all over Europe, Central America, Pan Am Games in Caracas. So it was such a great experience of one, just the people on the team, meeting different people, but then meeting people and competing with just really world class players around the world.

Brady: What position did you play?

Kavanaugh: I was a defender and a midfielder.

Brady: Ah. Wow, excellent, all-rounder. And you know, one of the revelations when you compete at that level is, must be where you suddenly play a team and you realize, Wow, now they’re good. I don’t know if it was the Brazilians I’m saying. I’m sure U.S., of course, we’re always excellent. But soccer is one of those sports where the rest of the world really does know the game. Was there a particular team that just was eye opening for you?

Kavanaugh: Yeah, we there were definitely some games, Pan Am, games, we did play Brazil, was eye opening and just, I truly believe this, when you play with and you play against better players, your game goes up. Now, it may not feel like that when you’re playing against those players, but I truly believe that is the case, and it was really fascinating just looking at culturally, just being able to learn and actually see different parts of the world and really how fortunate a lot of people are in the U.S. But to go back, there are different styles that people had. Some teams were more disciplined in regards to how they played, some were more free and flowing and had a different vibe to them. And you had to learn how to compete against those different teams. You know, some of the African teams were very, I would say free flowing and athletic in ways. And there were other teams that you know may have been more disciplined, and you think about that, you know those characteristics you see in business, and yet…

Brady: Yeah, and your partner, your whole business, is learning to partner with so many different companies and companies that also change, not just you change, but they change, of course, and get bought and, etc, and so how those evolve, I’m sure you have to be very quick on your feet. I don’t want to overdo the soccer analogy, but let me, let’s go back a little bit, not so much to walk chronology, you know, take us through your life. But I will pause on one other thing, the idea of your dad being a bricklayer. Clearly, there’s a modest element to that background. I’m the daughter of a carpet salesman. I have to say there’s certain elements of being the daughter of a salesman that’s very good, very useful for my current role. What did you learn in that capacity? Because in addition to him being a bricklayer, I’m sure he enlisted you in some capacity in the work. Is any of that that you’d want to mention in terms of your leadership, or how it’s impacted just your worldview as you built the business?

Kavanaugh: Yeah, I think it had a huge impact on me, both my dad and my mom. And I would say my dad was a man of few words and but you knew exactly where he stood. It was very clear. I had two siblings, an older and a younger sister, and we had jobs to do around the house, and there were certain expectations of how we acted, how we behaved, and there were consequences if you didn’t. So when I look at that and there were certain, I would say, values that he instilled and my mom instilled, and there was a very good yin and yang between my mom and my dad. My mom brought a lot of compassion, she was tough when she needed to be, but she brought a lot of love and compassion. I would say on my dad, a lot of discipline, a lot of rigor, just a lot of grind. You need to be willing to go out and grind it out. If you don’t understand, the importance of work ethic, you would have a problem at our house. And so, I think work ethic, there was loyalty, also there was this perspective of you’re no better than anybody else, but you’re as good as anybody, and that was a mindset that I’ve kept over the years. And so when I look at that, work ethic, teamwork, running toward work, not away from it, loyalty to your family, to your friends, these are all things that have been really foundational, and I would also say that mom bringing a level of love and compassion that really rounded out things that I think are very important. And, I think, all the way into the way I manage and lead today.

[Music begins.]

Brady: The majority of Fortune 500 companies have made commitments to reach net zero to address climate change. The challenge, of course, is how to get there. We spoke with Jason Girzadas, the CEO of Deloitte US, and the sponsor of this podcast. Here’s what he had to say.

Jason Girzadas: There’s a broad recognition that the cost of climate change is far greater than the cost of not investing in it. Organizations will continue to utilize technology to move on the journey towards a decarbonized future and a more circular economy. We’re already seeing the benefit of technology through an increase in alternative energy sources. The advances in battery and storage technology are evident. You’re seeing the growth and increased performance of EVs at lower price points. So, the impact and value of technology is being felt already, and that’s only going to continue. It’s pretty clear that climate change requires innovations that don’t exist today, but we do think that there will be new opportunities for innovation to be further accelerated through the development of ecosystems around emerging technologies. The urgency is there, the call, the action around climate change, and the path to sustainability is there, and the impact of climate change is real. I think that the narrative is shifting, one from it being a cost and an inconvenience to decarbonize our economy to one where it’s actually an opportunity. The client organizations that we serve are, in their own way, charting a path to a sustainable future.

[Music ends.]

Brady: When we think about the tech cycles, so 1990 one of the things, of course Silicon Valley was not a thing, per se. If anything, right, a lot of the hub and heart of technology was arguably up more toward the Boston area. I mean, what, when you think about just the trajectory of your own growth, and what you’ve seen the ups and downs of tech, what were some of the pivotal moments that you think about as being a turning point for the company?

Kavanaugh: I would say one, you know, and you know, the individual, but our relationship with Cisco was a turning point. Because if you even go back, to the mid to late ‘90s, Cisco was really coming on as the leader in the market and networking and a lot of different things. So I would say us intentionally building a relationship with Cisco. Would also say at that time, as you know, the dot com days were in full steam, in full motion. So at that point, you know, I had no idea, going to school, I played soccer, I went to St. Louis University, but had no idea what an IPO was, what investment banking meant that, didn’t know what a VC was. But it was like I learned quickly, and at that point, we looked at myself and the executive team, a few of us, how do we carve out a piece of World Wide, potentially take it public? Because all the madness was going on around dot coms, and some of the things. We actually did that. We did everything. We carved it out. You mentioned Boston. We got an investment, $27.5 million, from two VCs in Boston, Summit Partners in Highland, two great VCs, a bunch of Harvard folks that we worked with. So I scoured the U.S., went and did a lot of many road shows. But all of that really brought up a level of, gave me almost a PhD in the market, and venture capital and private equity and IPOs, all the way up to the point we were set to go public, take a piece of World Wide public and at over a billion dollar valuation at that time which was quite significant, with a significant run up, and that was in March of 2000 and the whole market just cratered.

Brady: People forget that Cisco was once the most valuable company on the planet, at that point, right?

Kavanaugh: Yes.

Brady: By market cap. And then it wasn’t. I think it lost probably about 90% of its value. So what did that? Because we talk about bubbles now, we talk about bubbles. We often refer to the dot com bubble as the bubble that everybody fears will happen again. What did that teach you?

Kavanaugh: Well, you know what it taught me, unfortunately, through my years, just growing up, that I did, I never really had a problem with running into tough times, and so you just have to regroup, and you have to understand that even in good times, you’ve got to be prepared to grind through challenging times. It’s not going to be good and great all the time. You’re not going to make all the right decisions. And some things can be self-inflicted, and hopefully you can minimize the amount of self-inflicted wounds that you create as you get smarter. But there’s also things that happen in the market that you have no control over. And there’s been some big market moves, you know, whether it’s the dot com and really just the employing of the entire market that created complete hysteria to a large degree of companies. So being able to retrench and grind through that and actually learn from that, I think, was a great experience. Now, fortunately, you want to be able to still be alive to tell the story with your company. And some people make it and some people don’t. But I would say that being willing to understand that there will be tough times, and you need to roll up your sleeves. And depending on where you are in a lifecycle of your company, you want to try to create a balance sheet or a structure that you don’t put everything at risk every day, that if a domino falls the wrong way, it literally can put you out of business.

Brady: Where are you in the life cycle of your company? It’s interesting because you’re big, you’re also in a space where you have massive competitors, and we’re at the cusp of this whole new era of innovation, of course, probably both underappreciated and overhyped at the same time, Jim. But what do you see right now as sort of where World Wide Technology plays?

Kavanaugh: Yeah, it’s fascinating. I mean, depending on who’s looking, you can look at it from a lot of different directions and say, wow, you know, we’ve really grown into a large company. And, you know, we’ve got a lot of value, and a lot of things that we’re doing. I actually look at it and say we have done a lot of really good things, and the value proposition that we bring to the market today is significantly better and deeper, broader and more value-added for customers and our partners. That being said, I feel like more of an entrepreneur today because of, as you just articulated, the size of the opportunity that just in my update today, the overall market, IT market is about $5 trillion. Now that’s everything. But we distill it back to the piece of that globally, that is actually, I would say, a sweet spot of ours, to a certain degree, it could be $1.5 to $1.6 trillion.

Brady: That’s your sweet spot is 1.5 to $1.6 trillion? That’s a big sweet spot.

Kavanaugh: It’s a huge space, when you look at where we play, and we only have a very, very small percentage. Now, you also mentioned, you’ve got to be realistic. There’s a lot of competitors out there and a lot of very good competitors. So while the opportunity is huge, there’s a lot of competition and, you know, you just have to be realistic about where you are and the kind of value that you bring.

Brady: Many a toy has brought down many a company, right? But tell me who is, who should love you most? I mean, who is the archetype customer for you?

Kavanaugh: I would say today, our sweet spot is more of the big, complex enterprise companies, and that’s where the majority of our business [is]. Large federal organizations, could be Air Force, Army, Marines, their civilian agencies. You look at hyperscalers today, service providers, those are all big customers. And then you look at global banks, healthcare, manufacturing, so the large organizations, and, like I said, the exciting thing is, we’re in a lot of the Fortune 500 but we have not nearly tapped out the opportunity we have in the existing customers, and then there’s a large customer base that we’re not in. I would say 80% of our businesses is in the U.S. domestic, North America, and we’re just scratching the surface overseas. So that opportunity. And then when you go downstream a bit, and these are still very large customers in the mid-market. That’s a very untapped market for us.

Brady: I know. I don’t know what you said in your update, but I’m guessing from your results that I’ve read, obviously AI is a huge growth area for you. And one of the things that’s fascinating is we keep hearing about it. What are the most exciting use cases, because you get into rooms we don’t get to go, Jim. How are people actually using it at this point?

Kavanaugh: Well, I would say there’s a couple different areas and fortunately, we play in these different areas. So one, when you think about AI, there’s an infrastructure play around AI, an infrastructure opportunity. So when you think about what Nvidia is doing which is, Nvidia has just done an amazing job, led by Jensen [Huang] and his entire leadership team. But if you think about it, the big hyperscalers in a lot of large organizations, and then what are also considered NCPs, Nvidia cloud providers, are just organizations that want to build out AI as a service. All of those companies are trying to consume and build out as fast as they can these GPU-based AI data centers, and that’s a huge opportunity, but it is a different skill set than building out a traditional data center. The design, the power, the cooling, the racking, the cabling, the environmentals, they take very, very specific skill sets and expertise. So that’s a huge opportunity.

And then you think about the infrastructure on the enterprise level. The enterprise organizations, while they’re thinking about the business outcomes, and I’ll get to those around AI, they’re thinking about, Do I need to build my AI purpose-built platforms on-prem in my own data centers? Or do I need to do it in the cloud, or do I do it in a hybrid way? So all of that…

Brady: And you advise them basically on the best use case for their particular situation, goals, etc.

Kavanaugh: Correct so, there’s a lot of, I would say, education and evaluation, and that’s where we use our advanced technology center as a testing lab to help those organizations work through the really complex details. And then the next phase is the, actually, the inferencing and the outcomes that organizations are looking to drive from AI, and those are going to be customer experiences, patient experiences, efficiencies that you drive internally. And if you think about it, just about every organization, almost as phase one, is trying to figure out, how do we create our own proprietary in-house ChatGPT-like AI platform that will just provide efficiencies to the organization.

Brady: As you’re talking, it’s interesting by its very nature you have to be a learning organization, right? I’m sure everybody wants a piece of you, they want to be the most favored when you’re going out there talking to your customers. Talk a little bit about, how do you lead now versus when you started? I know there’s a size component, but maybe in essence, what I’m really asking is, where do you get the most joy from your job? You know, the strengths that you play to.

Kavanaugh: I appreciate what you said in that it’s subtle, but I think it’s very important for a leader, for a leader to be able to go deep and really understand what your business does and really how the sausage is made, I think it’s very important. But at the same time, it’s not your job as a leader to stay in the detail, it’s to understand what you do, have an appreciation for that. But then you need to rise up to the 30,000 foot level and make sure that you’re setting the right vision and mission and direction for the organization. So I think there’s this ability, I believe for leaders, is to be able to set that vision, that mission, and the direction, but also have a true understanding, an authentic understanding of the work that needs to be done to drive the execution. Because vision and mission with no execution is nothing.

Brady: Yeah

Kavanaugh: And you need to be able to bring those together. And from my perspective, when you do that, and you do that with ambitious, passionate people, that’s where the real excitement, that’s where I get inspired, when I see the amazing teams and the people coming together that do amazing things. And also, individuals that, we make mistakes and teams make mistakes, and it’s how they react to those mistakes and how they react to a customer mistake and go out and make that better. Not go look at the contract and the terms and conditions, but go do what is right. So, things like that, how your employees act, how they behave, and integrating with them and seeing how that works, and seeing how people develop over the years. Even in our company update this morning, we talked about our internship. We’ve got people that are in senior VP positions that were interns 25 years ago when we started.

Brady: I want to ask, before I ask about the sort of component of your leadership, let’s go up to the 30,000 foot view, and you’ve laid out, I think, a really nice vision for your company. Give us your sense of where are we at this juncture. You know, every leader I talk to there is, there is a certain urgency, both a FOMO but it can also induce a bit of paralysis as to the choices that we now have in the speed of change. Can you, from where you sit, help us see around corners a little bit? Jim, what advice do you have in this environment for the choices that people are making around technology? There’s also so much money is going into things like AI, and it’s not clear yet if that’s money well spent.

Kavanaugh: First I would have to say that you have to take the time, as a leader, to really understand what’s going on. I also think you don’t have the time to analyze every bit and byte and cross every T and dot every i. So you have to get good at taking good swaths of information, gathering what you think is enough information to make intelligent decisions, and you need to start moving. Because if you wait for perfection, you’re going to be too late. And there’s a lot moving right now, specifically around digital transformation, AI, cyber, cloud, all of those things. And as I’ve mentioned, we’ve had 20, 30 executive briefings every week, customers coming in.

The interesting thing is, if you think about it, 20, 25, years ago, IT was really a back office function. If you think about where we are today, IT is, is really driving the business. You’ve got every CEO, board, and executive team, if they’re not thinking about, how are they digitizing their business? What’s their digital transformation strategy? How are they thinking about leveraging AI? And then also, how are you securing the organization from a cyber perspective? So these are really game changing things. So from my perspective, as a leader in the tech space and other businesses, you need to gather that information. You really need to be a student of your business and a student of the market, and really have this appetite to learn on a regular basis and make sure your ears are open and your eyes are open, and then you have to hope you make, you’re good at making good decisions. And sometimes you don’t, and when you don’t, you need to adjust and admit to that. So my view is that’s one of the things, that if you’re going to wait for all the information, it’s going to be way too late.

Brady: Well, your blink instincts must be pretty good at this point. You know, you mentioned the job of a leader, obviously, setting the vision and strategy, creating that leadership team. There’s also the job of replacing yourself. You know, you were a young man when you started this company. You’re still a young man. I mean, you’re at an age where people are often hired into the CEO role. How do you think about your own leadership and how you nurture a leadership culture, especially when you’re the co-founder and you’ve been in this kind of top seat. I know it’s probably, no doubt, a sensitive question, because you’re as engaged as ever. But how do you think about that and communicate the opportunities to the incredible talent I’m sure you’re nurturing?

Kavanaugh: I enjoy my role. I have great appreciation for it and I never take it for granted. I truly don’t. And I’m very proud of other leaders that we have, all our employees, but other leaders in the company. It’s a little bit amazing to me when I look at some other organizations, and I’ll talk to some CEOs and different organizations that I’m a part of, and they’re like, well, we don’t have another, no replacement for me. Nobody can come in and do my job. And I’m like, That is not the case here. I’ve got a number of people that could step into my role, and I think that’s part of the job, definitely part of the CEO, that I feel very, very fortunate to have some incredible leaders that are under me that could take my position today. They would do a great job today. And the thing is, I also think that you have to figure out a way to keep those individuals, as you’re growing, if they want that spot. And I think that’s part of what I’ve talked to our team today. Our mission is to be a profitable growth company that’s a great place to work for all. And if you think about profitability, for all the reasons, reinvesting back in the business, to be able to innovate, to be able to do the things provide benefits to your employees, and all the things that you need to do, but growth is a really important one. If you’re not growing as an organization, you’re not creating opportunity for your ambitious employees and your leaders. So, I think part of it is putting those, finding and identifying those individuals that could take your position and making sure that you’re feeding them challenging opportunities that inspire them and allow them to create passion and feel really good about what they’re doing. So I feel very good…

Brady: And you now you have a soccer club. Am I correct?

Kavanaugh: Yes.

Brady: Give us a sense, you know, as we, as we finish up our conversation here, I’m really curious, tell us a bit about the passion and the vision for that.

Kavanaugh: Yeah, that’s one, obviously, it’s been near and dear to my heart. You know, I probably wouldn’t have gone to college if I didn’t get a soccer scholarship. I may have gone into construction of some sort at that point. So soccer has been very good to me. I love the game, love the sport. I love the global nature of it. And when I stopped playing, I actually, I coached soccer for my kids for a number of years and stayed involved with the clubs, and so when the opportunity came to really think about bringing a Major League Soccer team to St. Louis, it was a great opportunity. It was one that I was very interested in. And soccer is a unique thing. Sports is unique, especially in some cases, because they don’t necessarily operate just like a business, because the value is more on future aspirations and growth of the franchise. And at times they may not cash flow, and depending on which sport and where you are at..

Brady: Passion projects.

Kavanaugh: Yeah. So there’s a lot of dynamics that go into it, but one of the reasons, and along with the Taylor family here that owns Enterprise Rent-A-Car and Enterprise Mobility, they’re very philanthropic, and I would say worldwide, and I’ve done a lot of things here locally, it’s been such a joy to actually bring that soccer team to St. Louis, build a stadium downtown, and to see the multiplier effect of goodness from an economic activity standpoint, and to see what it has done to bring people together, to come down with the passion for the games. We’re in our second year, every game has been sold out. The fans, the supporter, have been just incredible. It’s been great, great for the city.

Brady: I think there’s a reality show in that, but I also hear you are a reader so I want to end off by asking, what are you reading right now that you would put on our bedside table, perhaps?

Kavanaugh: You know, I would say I’m kind of jumping around right now. You know, recently, I’m trying to think of the last book that, there’s a lot of things I’ve been looking into. One is tracking different podcasts, I would say, which I’m interested around AI, obviously leadership, but also I’m very fascinated by longevity and health. And I think when you think about what AI and these large language models are going to do for science and for solving really tough problems, whether it’s curing cancer, it’s creating, you know, figuring out really how to leverage and implement stem cell technology. A lot of the other things I think are fascinating as I’m looking at them are all the wearables.

Brady: Do you have an Oura ring on? I’m looking at your hands there.

Kavanaugh: I’ve got an Oura ring on. Tracking, just like the devices, I don’t have anything, but you know, it’s like, there will be times when there will be continuous glucose monitors that will just be embedded, and there will be telemetry that you shared with your doctor on a regular basis. So I think it’s fascinating to see how these things are coming together and how fast they’re coming together. So from a reading standpoint, it’s really been more opportunistic across some of the different blogs, and I would say, some of the different podcasts.

Brady: I love that, and obviously it’s about a life well lived, not necessarily the length. So I can’t think of a better place to end than there. Jim, thank you so much for your time. It’s World Wide Technology, of course, and I look forward to one of your, we call it football in the U.K., of course, soccer, but great company and great impact you’ve had in St. Louis as well. Thanks for joining us.

Kavanaugh: Thank you very much, and I would love to have you in for a football game, soccer game, and I appreciate all your time and all you’re doing. Congratulations on your new role.

Brady: Thank you. I appreciate it, and I look forward to seeing you in person. It’ll be fun. Thanks again.

Kavanaugh: Thank you.

Brady: Leadership Next is edited by Nicole Vergalla. Our audio engineer is Natasha Ortiz. Our executive producer is Chris Joslin. Our producer is Mason Cohn. Our theme is by Jason Snell. Leadership Next is a production of Fortune Media.

Leadership Next episodes are produced by Fortune’s editorial team. The views and opinions expressed by podcast speakers and guests are solely their own and do not reflect the opinions of Deloitte or its personnel. Nor does Deloitte advocate or endorse any individuals or entities featured on the episodes.